I have asked no fewer than eight people, ranging from old friends I've known for nearly 50 years, to acquaintances I've met along the way, why and how they can support someone like Donald Trump.
Aside from the ones who have blocked/defriended/disappeared, I will let you all know when any of them answer me.
And they won't because they don't have a good answer. I see trump voters making excuses, parroting what republicans have always said about democrats; that they will cause inflation, raise gas prices, "come for your guns" and conveniently ignore that much of the scare mongering doesn't happen, or that events are too nuanced to blame on any one president or congress.
I was listening to Molly Jong-Fast's podcast the other day. She was interviewing the economist Justin Wolfers. He made the point that for all trump and his ilk are described as "pro-business" the are actually pro crony capitalism. They are not pro markets. They do not push back on corporate excesses, anti-trust violations, labor violations. It's a somewhat subtle but important distinction. Trump doesn't know how to run a business without cheating, how the fuck can he run an economy. And the people he would choose (or were chosen for him because wtf does he know) would crash the general economy and how is that "good for business?"
The excuse I get when I ask is that they chose and will choose Grump over Clinton, Biden, and Harris because they could never vote for the Democrats. They've given various reasons for disliking the individual Democratic candidates, but it comes down to I hate Democrats because they take my money.
We will disagree and remain civil over your support of racists, misogynist, me first politics of trump.
You like them. Your choice. I curse the ground they walk. Why? Am I looking for a purity candidate? Fuck and no. It is about time these supporters are called out for what they are; trump lite
I don't blame that woman for complaining about MAGAts in the restaurant. This isn't a patron having a meal. That family made a political statement on behalf of their business what values they hold dear. They got what they deserved.
You mention they hire women as servers. BFD, I never thought you would fall for that. How many women are managers or in a position of leadership?
Any Black employees.
I've known families like that my whole life. I have no contact because this election is too important to support a candidate without one shred of human dignity.
Somewhere between having and living in a world of only like-minded people and eating chicken Parmesan served in a restaurant owned by Trump supporters is a difficult dance, especially when there is goodness in those people who own the joint.
Barry- you just said there are good people on both sides. Really? What goodness lows the restaurant owners to Hope to elect a racist, misogynist, bully? They must either think all of that is okay
Anyone who still supports Drumpf is now dead to me. Here, minus my address, is a message I sent to the Secretary of the Army two days ago:
2 September 2024
To: The Honorable Christine Wormuth, Secretary of the Army
From: Josef Daniel Prall, US Army veteran 1962-1968
Dear Secretary Wormuth:
I read in the news that the Army has declined to take further action against the Trump Campaign regarding its egregious violations of Arlington National Cemetery policy regarding filming and photographing campaign material in Section 60.
I understand that this lack of action was because of the assaulted ANC employee, who declined to press charges, owing to a very real fear of violence from Trump supporters.
However, I feel it is your duty to press charges against those people involved in the desecration of the ANC, as they filmed activities in Section 60, despite previously having been notified of the restrictions against such filming. They continued their violations as if they were above the law.
These were separate offenses beyond their assault of the employee, and the decision to pursue charges against them lie with you, not the ANC employee, who works for you.
Several members of that campaign continued to post insults after that, as if knowing that you would fail to pursue charges against them.
Please prove them wrong, and press charges against them.
I write as a Regular US Army veteran from 10 June 1962 on graduation from The Virginia Military Institute, until the resignation of my Field Artillery commission took effect on 31 December 1968, with tours in the 101st Airborne Division at Ft Campbell, the 8th Infantry Division in Germany, and the 25th Infantry Division in Vietnam from 5 May 1967 thru 5 May 1968.
The insult by the Trump campaign was not just against me and all other veterans of all services, but especially against our hallowed dead buried at ANC.
Paul and I went to high school with the Cortis brothers, aka the guys behind the "Trump Unity Van." Rob and Mike. I know people who will vote for him, I don't like to interact with them too much.
Throughout history, even the smartest have almost always been stupid in that they have recommended to humans of lesser capacity a fictitious certainty over a more frightening reality. Slavery didn't exist because if it did good people who think that existence is only an audition might be discomfited. Today those traitors to intellect include David and Ross along with the Clown Prince Rich Lowry. I don't blame the deluded, but at some point it becomes impossible not to.
I am ready to believe that if Trump stopped in the middle of one of his public rants, reached into his pants, and began to throw his feces at the audience, they would cheer him for his authenticity, and still happily vote for him.
I despair for them. Hoever this election turns out, they will still be here, carrying on in this deadly obliviousness.
The part about hiring women and girls to work at Monetize Mondo's is a point I've always struggled with re Trump. I wondered about the dinner conversations went with friends who had daughters. What do you say? How do you justify Trump? "I don't like mean tweets but misogyny is ok? As I've said before, some of these folks were first in line to help when I had cancer. It was very dissonant when they supported Trump. I still don't quite know how to manage that dissonance.
That's exactly it. How do you maneuver through that. They are supporting someone who is actively planning to hurt people. This isn't about tax cuts gender-neutral bathrooms
And I suppose they'll believe him when they hear today that he claims all of the "news" about what happened last week at Arlington is "fake news," that no altercation happened, no rules were broken. Yes! He really said all that this morning!!!
They'll believe him because of course.
I do understand your situation. There are two very well-known authors in my field with whom I have been friends for many years; both went out of their ways to boost my work when I was first published, and have helped with blurbs and introductions in later books. It's mattered. I've done the same for their work as my support has become publicly valuable. And both turned out in 2016 and since to be major Trump supporters. And because I like them individually - and because it matters to be associated with them professionally in the field - I don't talk any politics more recent than 1973 with them. I can't figure out how two guys as intelligent as these two are can have those politics, but they do. I'll continue to hope that the scales fall from their eyes, but I won't hold my breath on that.
This is the conundrum. Perfectly stated, my friend. Good, solid people except for this. And how big a wedge is “this” in the relationship? How big should it be? To not talk politics is to give up the oxygen in the room. To talk about it is to ruin the friendship.
Redding, CA, where I live could rightly be called "Tulsa West." Thin spots of blue in a sea of red. I'm guessing the quality of our lives is diminished for having moved and now find ourselves economically trapped here (as in, the only places we can afford to head with a moving van are as bad or worse than this dump). We go out to eat only 2-3 times a year, usually at a quick-in/quick-out chain. No chance of stumbling upon smiling fascists with illusions Trump's tax revisions will benefit them serving us great pizza. I have one friend who's a Trump voter. We've known each other for nearly 55 years. With him and his spouse, it's about abortion and skin color, though he'd deny the latter vehemently. Meanwhile, as soon after retirement as he could, he decamped to Idaho. Cue the geographic dog whistle. We speak by phone a couple times year. Subjects are kids/grandkids, the Dodgers, his Fresno State Bulldogs, and my newfound love for rugby. That's it. I don't care to listen to any of the canned/silo'd "wisdom" he and his spouse extract from Newsmax, Fox, and their neighbors. I don't give two corroded fucks if I end up a hermit with absolutely no friends if it means I can say I was only tangentially trump-adjacent. Fuck them all.
And this is coming from a St. Louis-corn half-wop whose ears perk up at the mere suggestion there is good pizza somewhere. I will concede the Aloisios bring a decent pie to the table. Didn't know about the Trump horseshit that time, though.
I'll never ever understand the cult of personality surrounding trump. I hear Dems say "He hates the same people they hate" but that seems insufficient to describe their (in many cases) abject fealty to him. I hear Reps talking about how 'strong' he is as a 'leader', how he 'scares our enemies' and how great a businessman he is because he's a billionaire. 'He's not afraid to speak his mind' is also a common defense. But they offer no specifics, no concrete policies or actions of his to back this up. His subjects overlook every single negative thing about him, and even when you add them all up and say "See? THIS IS TRUMP!" their eyes just glaze over and they mumble something about "Well, he's not Harris/Biden/HRC/Obama." I have family who support trump. I work with people who support trump. No, I will not cut these people out of my life. I won't let trump do that to me.
And this is it. It's a messy world. We cut people slack until the people they support -- and wouldn't be in power but for that support -- come for your family. Extreme? Yeah. But as I have said before, Hitler wasn't Hitler until he was Der Fuhrer.
I have asked no fewer than eight people, ranging from old friends I've known for nearly 50 years, to acquaintances I've met along the way, why and how they can support someone like Donald Trump.
Aside from the ones who have blocked/defriended/disappeared, I will let you all know when any of them answer me.
Because none of them have.
I would guess they support him because he won in 2016 and, also, cynically, I think they want to be like him if they could.
And they won't because they don't have a good answer. I see trump voters making excuses, parroting what republicans have always said about democrats; that they will cause inflation, raise gas prices, "come for your guns" and conveniently ignore that much of the scare mongering doesn't happen, or that events are too nuanced to blame on any one president or congress.
I was listening to Molly Jong-Fast's podcast the other day. She was interviewing the economist Justin Wolfers. He made the point that for all trump and his ilk are described as "pro-business" the are actually pro crony capitalism. They are not pro markets. They do not push back on corporate excesses, anti-trust violations, labor violations. It's a somewhat subtle but important distinction. Trump doesn't know how to run a business without cheating, how the fuck can he run an economy. And the people he would choose (or were chosen for him because wtf does he know) would crash the general economy and how is that "good for business?"
The excuse I get when I ask is that they chose and will choose Grump over Clinton, Biden, and Harris because they could never vote for the Democrats. They've given various reasons for disliking the individual Democratic candidates, but it comes down to I hate Democrats because they take my money.
Okay, that is a typo, but it fits, so I'm just going to leave it.
How fucking nice to wake up to this. Not
We will disagree and remain civil over your support of racists, misogynist, me first politics of trump.
You like them. Your choice. I curse the ground they walk. Why? Am I looking for a purity candidate? Fuck and no. It is about time these supporters are called out for what they are; trump lite
I don't blame that woman for complaining about MAGAts in the restaurant. This isn't a patron having a meal. That family made a political statement on behalf of their business what values they hold dear. They got what they deserved.
You mention they hire women as servers. BFD, I never thought you would fall for that. How many women are managers or in a position of leadership?
Any Black employees.
I've known families like that my whole life. I have no contact because this election is too important to support a candidate without one shred of human dignity.
I never thought you'd be a rube.
Somewhere between having and living in a world of only like-minded people and eating chicken Parmesan served in a restaurant owned by Trump supporters is a difficult dance, especially when there is goodness in those people who own the joint.
Barry- you just said there are good people on both sides. Really? What goodness lows the restaurant owners to Hope to elect a racist, misogynist, bully? They must either think all of that is okay
50 years in politics and Hollywood have taught me there are no purity anybodys.
Anyone who still supports Drumpf is now dead to me. Here, minus my address, is a message I sent to the Secretary of the Army two days ago:
2 September 2024
To: The Honorable Christine Wormuth, Secretary of the Army
From: Josef Daniel Prall, US Army veteran 1962-1968
Dear Secretary Wormuth:
I read in the news that the Army has declined to take further action against the Trump Campaign regarding its egregious violations of Arlington National Cemetery policy regarding filming and photographing campaign material in Section 60.
I understand that this lack of action was because of the assaulted ANC employee, who declined to press charges, owing to a very real fear of violence from Trump supporters.
However, I feel it is your duty to press charges against those people involved in the desecration of the ANC, as they filmed activities in Section 60, despite previously having been notified of the restrictions against such filming. They continued their violations as if they were above the law.
These were separate offenses beyond their assault of the employee, and the decision to pursue charges against them lie with you, not the ANC employee, who works for you.
Several members of that campaign continued to post insults after that, as if knowing that you would fail to pursue charges against them.
Please prove them wrong, and press charges against them.
I write as a Regular US Army veteran from 10 June 1962 on graduation from The Virginia Military Institute, until the resignation of my Field Artillery commission took effect on 31 December 1968, with tours in the 101st Airborne Division at Ft Campbell, the 8th Infantry Division in Germany, and the 25th Infantry Division in Vietnam from 5 May 1967 thru 5 May 1968.
The insult by the Trump campaign was not just against me and all other veterans of all services, but especially against our hallowed dead buried at ANC.
Sincerely yours,
Josef Daniel Prall
Paul and I went to high school with the Cortis brothers, aka the guys behind the "Trump Unity Van." Rob and Mike. I know people who will vote for him, I don't like to interact with them too much.
Throughout history, even the smartest have almost always been stupid in that they have recommended to humans of lesser capacity a fictitious certainty over a more frightening reality. Slavery didn't exist because if it did good people who think that existence is only an audition might be discomfited. Today those traitors to intellect include David and Ross along with the Clown Prince Rich Lowry. I don't blame the deluded, but at some point it becomes impossible not to.
I think I know what you're getting at here. Hitler got almost 12,000,000 votes. They weren't all clueless and led astray.
I am ready to believe that if Trump stopped in the middle of one of his public rants, reached into his pants, and began to throw his feces at the audience, they would cheer him for his authenticity, and still happily vote for him.
I despair for them. Hoever this election turns out, they will still be here, carrying on in this deadly obliviousness.
The part about hiring women and girls to work at Monetize Mondo's is a point I've always struggled with re Trump. I wondered about the dinner conversations went with friends who had daughters. What do you say? How do you justify Trump? "I don't like mean tweets but misogyny is ok? As I've said before, some of these folks were first in line to help when I had cancer. It was very dissonant when they supported Trump. I still don't quite know how to manage that dissonance.
That's exactly it. How do you maneuver through that. They are supporting someone who is actively planning to hurt people. This isn't about tax cuts gender-neutral bathrooms
And I suppose they'll believe him when they hear today that he claims all of the "news" about what happened last week at Arlington is "fake news," that no altercation happened, no rules were broken. Yes! He really said all that this morning!!!
They'll believe him because of course.
I do understand your situation. There are two very well-known authors in my field with whom I have been friends for many years; both went out of their ways to boost my work when I was first published, and have helped with blurbs and introductions in later books. It's mattered. I've done the same for their work as my support has become publicly valuable. And both turned out in 2016 and since to be major Trump supporters. And because I like them individually - and because it matters to be associated with them professionally in the field - I don't talk any politics more recent than 1973 with them. I can't figure out how two guys as intelligent as these two are can have those politics, but they do. I'll continue to hope that the scales fall from their eyes, but I won't hold my breath on that.
This is the conundrum. Perfectly stated, my friend. Good, solid people except for this. And how big a wedge is “this” in the relationship? How big should it be? To not talk politics is to give up the oxygen in the room. To talk about it is to ruin the friendship.
Was Agnew gone by 73? The problem's not Don, for the trumpteenth time. Watch the "moderate" pundits kvell over whatever religious fascist comes next.
We're military aviation historians. That's the end of the Vietnam war.
54% of adults have a literacy below a 6th-grade level (20% are below 5th-grade level). - https://www.thenationalliteracyinstitute.com/post/literacy-statistics-2024-2025-where-we-are-now
Redding, CA, where I live could rightly be called "Tulsa West." Thin spots of blue in a sea of red. I'm guessing the quality of our lives is diminished for having moved and now find ourselves economically trapped here (as in, the only places we can afford to head with a moving van are as bad or worse than this dump). We go out to eat only 2-3 times a year, usually at a quick-in/quick-out chain. No chance of stumbling upon smiling fascists with illusions Trump's tax revisions will benefit them serving us great pizza. I have one friend who's a Trump voter. We've known each other for nearly 55 years. With him and his spouse, it's about abortion and skin color, though he'd deny the latter vehemently. Meanwhile, as soon after retirement as he could, he decamped to Idaho. Cue the geographic dog whistle. We speak by phone a couple times year. Subjects are kids/grandkids, the Dodgers, his Fresno State Bulldogs, and my newfound love for rugby. That's it. I don't care to listen to any of the canned/silo'd "wisdom" he and his spouse extract from Newsmax, Fox, and their neighbors. I don't give two corroded fucks if I end up a hermit with absolutely no friends if it means I can say I was only tangentially trump-adjacent. Fuck them all.
And this is coming from a St. Louis-corn half-wop whose ears perk up at the mere suggestion there is good pizza somewhere. I will concede the Aloisios bring a decent pie to the table. Didn't know about the Trump horseshit that time, though.
I'll never ever understand the cult of personality surrounding trump. I hear Dems say "He hates the same people they hate" but that seems insufficient to describe their (in many cases) abject fealty to him. I hear Reps talking about how 'strong' he is as a 'leader', how he 'scares our enemies' and how great a businessman he is because he's a billionaire. 'He's not afraid to speak his mind' is also a common defense. But they offer no specifics, no concrete policies or actions of his to back this up. His subjects overlook every single negative thing about him, and even when you add them all up and say "See? THIS IS TRUMP!" their eyes just glaze over and they mumble something about "Well, he's not Harris/Biden/HRC/Obama." I have family who support trump. I work with people who support trump. No, I will not cut these people out of my life. I won't let trump do that to me.
And this is it. It's a messy world. We cut people slack until the people they support -- and wouldn't be in power but for that support -- come for your family. Extreme? Yeah. But as I have said before, Hitler wasn't Hitler until he was Der Fuhrer.
The Aloisio Italian food must be awfully g.d. good for you to continue patronizing their restaurant(s).
Life is about choices and helping others. So much for your integrity, Barry. Shame!
“Helping others . . . integrity”? Not following you.